INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII: Housing or Agriculture: Which Does Hawaii Need More?

INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII: Housing or Agriculture: Which Does Hawaii Need More?


>>MAHEALANI: NEXT ON INSIGHTS
ON PBS HAWAII, HOUSING OR AGRICULTURE? WHICH DOES
HAWAI’I NEED MORE?>>MAHEALANI: ALOHA AND
WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.
I’M MAHEALANI RICHARDSON YOUR HOST FOR TONIGHT’S SHOW.
REDEVELOPMENT OF HAWAI’I’S FORMER PLANTATION LANDS IS
KEEPING ALIVE THE DEBATE BETWEEN NEEDING HOUSING AND
GROWING LOCALLY-SOURCED FOOD.
ON OAHU, THE HONOLULU CITY COUNSELOR IS CONSIDERING A
ZONE CHANGE FOR HO’OPILI, A HOUSING PROJECT NEARLY 20
YEARS IN THE MAKING. THE PROJECT COULD DISPLAY
SOME FARMERS WHO FEEL THEY’LL LOSE PRIME AG LAND.
PLANNERS SAY THERE’S ROOM FOR BOTH HOUSING AND FARMING.
NO MATTER WHERE YOU SIT ON THE DEBATE, THE QUESTION REMAINS
CAN WE DEVELOP MORE HOUSING ON WHAT WAS ONCE AG HE CULTURAL
LAND AND NOT LOSE FOOD SUSTAINABILITY EFFORTS?
HOUSING OR AGRICULTURE, WHICH DOES HAWAI’I NEED MORE? IF
YOU’RE INTERESTED IN CONTRIBUTING TO OUR
DISCUSSION ON HOUSING AND AGRICULTURE, INSIGHTS ON PBS
HAWAII INVITES TO YOU SHARE YOUR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS
WITH OUR PANEL. CALL 973-1000 IF YOU LIVE ON
OAHU. OR 1800-283-4347 IF YOU LIVE
ON A NEIGHBOR ISLAND. YOU CAN ALSO GO TO
PBSHAWAII.ORG, SEND AND US AN E-MAIL OR FIND US ON
[email protected] HAWAI’I. TO OUR PANEL.
REPPUN IS A WAIAHOLE FARMER. 40 YEARS CO-OWNER OF WAIANU
FARM. 10-ACRE CERTIFIED ORGANIC
FARM THAT SPECIALIZE DOLLARS IN TARO, CORN AND CROPS.
GEORGE ATTA HAS BEEN THE DIRECTOR OF CITY’S DEPARTMENT
OF PLANNING & PERMITTING SINCE 22013.
BEFORE JOINING THE CITY, MR. ATTA WAS A PRINCIPAL
PARTNER AND PROJECT MANAGER AT GROUP 70, INTERNATIONAL
DESIGN FIRM IN HONOLULU. LUCIANO MINERBI IS A
PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI’I, DEPARTMENT OF
URBAN AND REGIONAL PLANNING. PROFESSOR MINERBI HAS BEEN
CRITICAL IN THE PAST OF THE SUBURBIZATION OF WEST OAHU
AND THE EFFECTS IT HAS ON OUR PEOPLE AND ISLAND ECOLOGY.
AND JESSE SOUKI IS A LAND USE ATTORNEY PROVIDES LEGAL
ADVICE TO PUBLIC AND PRIVATE LAND USE PROPONENTS,
PREVIOUSLY, MR. SOUKI WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE OFFICE
OF PLANNING, WHICH PROVIDES THE GOVERNOR WITH DIRECTION
STATEWIDE PLANNING. HE ALSO SERVED AS FIRST DEPUTY
IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURCES.
THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.
OBVIOUSLY, HO’OPILI, A HUGE CONTROVERSY RIGHT NOW.
IT’S NOT ONLY ABOUT HO’OPILI. WE HAVE TO START WITH IT RIGHT
NOW BECAUSE IT’S HOT RIGHT NOW.
CAN YOU TELL US THE LATEST ON THE PROJECT THOUSANDS OF
HOMES.>>COUNCIL PASSED THE PROJECT
ON FIRST READING. THAT’S USUALLY PRO FORMA
ANYWAY. REAL DEBATE IS GOING TO START
IN COMMITTEE NEXT WEEK. IT WILL BE — THAT WILL BE FOR
DISCUSSION, PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN FOR SECOND READING IF
IT PASSES OUT COMMITTEE.>>MAHEALANI: WHERE DOES THE
DEPARTMENT STAND ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT?
>>THE DEPARTMENT SUBMITTED ITS RECOMMENDATION T IS FOR
APPROVAL. AND THE PRIMARY REASONS THAT
PEOPLE ALWAYS WONDER IS THAT IT IS WITHIN THE CITY’S URBAN
GROWTH BOUNDARY AND IT IS CONFORMS TO THE GENERAL PLANS
GROWTH POLICY FOR THE AREA. SO WE WERE RECOMMENDING
APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.>>MAHEALANI: YOU KNOW, JOBS
IS ALWAYS A CONSIDERATION IN THIS MR. SOUKI, WHERE DO YOU
SEE IN TERMS OF THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? WILL IT
CREATE JOBS? WILL IT PUSH OUT THE AGRICULTURAL LANDS
THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT WE STILL NEED TO KEEP?
>>FOR THE PROJECT ITSELF, I AM AWARE THAT IT WILL CREATE
CONSTRUCTION JOBS.>>ALSO FUTURE JOBS,
DEVELOPMENT WITH COMMERCIAL AS WELL AS RESIDENTIAL.
BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S A FALSE DICHOTOMY TO SAY THAT WE
HAVE TO CHOOSE HOUSING OVER AGRICULTURE.
I THINK WE NEED BOTH. THERE’S MORE THAN HOUSING AN
AGRICULTURE. WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT ENERGY,
RECREATIONAL USES, TRANSPORTATION USES, WE USE
LAND FOR MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS.
IF I WOULD TALK ABOUT THE STATE WIDE PLANNING SYSTEM,
AND WHAT GEORGE IS IS TALKING ABOUT AT THE CITY, TAKES PLACE
IN THAT STATEWIDE PLANNING CONTEXT.
THAT’S PART OF A LONG CONTINUUM THAT STARTED MAYBE
HOW LONG AG WAS THE GENERAL PLAN FIRST PASSED FOR THAT
AREA?>>FIRST GENERAL PLAN IS AT 64
GENERAL PLAN. BUT THE ONE THAT DIRECTED
GROWTH TO EWA IS 77 GENERAL PLAN.
>>SO IT’S BEEN IN THE PLANS TO HAVE THIS AREA URBANIZED
SINCE AT LEAST THAT LONG. AND SO YOU HAVE THE PLAN IN
PLACE, THE FIRST STOP FOR THEM FOR THE FIRST ENTITLEMENT WAS
THE STATE LAND USE COMMISSION.
THAT’S WHERE THE OFFICE I USED TO BELONG TO, STATE OFFICE OF
PLANNING WAS A PARTY FOR THE STATE.
OUR RECOMMENDATION LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF PLAN AND
PERMITTING WAS TO APPROVE THE PROJECT WITH MANY CONDITIONS
THAT ADDRESSES DIFFERENT CRITERIA OF MOVING THE
PROJECT FORWARD. THE CRITERIA IS BASED ON THE
LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED CHAPTER 205, STATE LAND USE
LAW, WHICH ADDRESSES ISSUES OF ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS,
SOCIOECONOMIC ISSUES, HOUSING ISSUES, AGRICULTURE
IS A BIG PART OF IT. BRINGING IN THE 1978
AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION AND MADE OUR AGRICULTURE A
PRIORITY. ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE
TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. IT’S A VERY DIFFICULT, LONG
COMPLEX PROCESS. IT CAN TAKE MOST PROJECTS OVER
SEVEN YEARS TO GET TO A BUILDING P PERMIT.
THIS PROJECT TOOK MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.
>>MAHEALANI: WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS PROJECT, PEOPLE
SAY OR THE DEVELOPERS WILL SAY THAT AGRICULTURE LAND WILL BE
PRESERVED AND CREATED AS PATRON OF THIS PARTICULAR
PROJECT. DO YOU THINK THAT’S TRUE?
>>I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY, ALL OF THE LAND WILL BE BUILT
ON. THAT’S BEEN BECAUSE THE DE
FACTO POLICY OF BOTH STATE AND COUNTY IS TO PROMOTE THE
CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY WHICH IS THE SAME THING AS SAYING
PROMOTE THE POPULATION GROWTH.
THAT’S BEEN OUR POLICY FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
EVEN THOUGH CITY COUNCIL, IS THE CITY PLANS SAYS WE’RE
SUPPOSED TO CONTROL POPULATION GROWTH AND BALANCE
MIGRATION WITHOUT MIGRATION. THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS
THAT CONSTRUCTION DRIVES EVERYTHING BECAUSE
CONSTRUCTION IS WHERE THE HIGHER PAYING JOBS ARE.
EVERY FAMILY NEEDS CONSTRUCTION WORKER.
I WENT TO THE FIRST HO’OPILI, HEARING IN FRONT OF THE LAND
COMMISSION. EVERY HEARING I WENT TO, ALL
OF THE FRIENDS AND LOCAL GUYS ALL WITH THEIR TEE-SHIRTS ON
SUPPORTING THIS PROJECT. SO I THINK WE NEED TO START
REPORTING THINGS DIFFERENTLY.
WE ALWAYS REPORT BOTH NATIONALLY AND LOCALLY THAT
NEW HOUSING STARTS, ARE UP. THAT’S ALWAYS GOOD NEWS.
THAT’S HOW WE REPORT CONSTRUCTION TOO, PART OF THE
WAY THAT WE DO POPULATION PROJECTIONS IN THIS STATE OF
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HERE IN THE FUTURE IS BY
LOOKING AT CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY AND THE TOURISM
INDUSTRY AND SEEING HOW MUCH GROWTH THEY NEED TO BE HEALTHY
AND THEN THAT’S PARTLY HOW WE DO POPULATION PROJECTIONS.
>>MAHEALANI: PROFESSOR MINERBI, WANTED TO HEAR FROM
YOU. THERE IS THIS FARM COMPONENT
AS A PART OF THIS HO’OPILI PROJECT.
DO YOU THINK THAT’S ENOUGH?>>WELL, I DON’T WANT TO
ANSWER SPECIFICALLY NOW WITH THESE, MAYBE LATER ON.
I PREFER TO PUT IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT WHEN WE ARRIVED AT
THIS SITUATION THAT YOU HEARD, WOULD APPROVE A
DIFFERENT LAND AND STATE AND COUNTY LAND, FOR SO MANY
YEARS, THROUGH SO MANY STEPS. SO THAT’S NOW WHY WE EVEN
DISCUSS. AS YOU MENTIONED, LOOKS LIKE
THE COMMUNITY HAS NOT ACCEPTED YET THIS PROJECT
NECESSARILY, LOSS OF AGRICULTURAL LAND.
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE GOT TO THIS SITUATION.
I TRIED TO SEE, PUT THE FINGER ON THE PROBLEM.
AND I THINK IT IS ON THE STATE POPULATION PROJECTION DONE
BY — RESEARCHER. HOWEVER, POPULATION
PROJECTION ARE MADE UP OF EXTRAPOLATION OF — ANALYSIS
OF PROBABILITY OF EVENT THAT CAN BE INTERNATIONAL OF THE
LOCAL SITUATION AND WHAT IS DESIRABLE.
THAT SHOULD BE SET BY THE COMMUNITY AND LEGISLATURE.
THESE POPULATION PROJECTIONS, VERY TECHNICAL,
VERY COMPLICATED, THEY USE INPUT, OUTPUT, VERY FEW
PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, THEY ARE GIVEN TO THE LEGISLATURE THE
GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND SO ON.
STATE POPULATION PROJECTION ARE TAKEN, I BELIEVE ARE
CRITICALLY, WITHOUT BEING ANALYZED BY LEGISLATURE, IN
SPITE OF THE FACT THAT INTRODUCTION OF THESE
DOCUMENTS, THIS PROJECT IS NOT NECESSARILY — IT’S FOR
THE LEGISLATURE AND ADMINISTRATOR OF STATE AND
COUNTY TO MAKE THE DECISION ON THIS.
I DON’T THINK THIS IS HAPPENING ADEQUATELY.
>>MAHEALANI: MR. ATTA, DEPOPULATION PROJECTION,
THESE ARE PROJECTIONS THAT ARE 10, 20, 30 YEARS DOWN THE
LINE. AND DO PLANNERS NEED TO CHANGE
IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING IF THE PUBLIC FEELS DIFFERENTLY
ABOUT A PARTICULAR PROJECT?>>ACTUALLY, POPULATION
PROJECTION FOR OAHU IS DONE BY OUT OF MY OFFICE. WE
HAVE — INPUT, OUTPUT MODEL. AND THERE’S BEST ESTIMATES.
I MEAN, NOBODY KNOWS THE FUTURE.
BUT AS WE LOOK AT THE TRENDS AND HOW ACCURATE THESE
PROJECTIONS HAVE BEEN, I WOULD SAY THAT’S MODELS HAVE
BEEN FAIRLY ACCURATE OVER THE LAST 20, 30 YEARS.
SO WHILE YOU CAN SAY THAT FUTURE, AND PLANNERS HAVE TO
LOOK TO THE FUTURE AND WE HAVE TO MAKE EDUCATED GUESSES AND
PROJECTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE.>>MAHEALANI: CAN YOU TAKE US
THROUGH THE MAP? WE HAVE A MAP OF HO’OPILI AND MORE
DETAILED MAP OF THE MORE PARTICULAR AREA.
WHY DON’T YOU TAKE US THROUGH IT AND SHOW US, WE HAVE A MAP
THAT SHOWS HO’OPILI AND THE WEST OAHU AREA.
THERE’S ANOTHER MAP THAT BASICALLY SHOWS WHERE THE
AGRICULTURAL LANDS WILL BE PRESERVED.
CAN YOU TAKE US THROUGH THAT?>>CAN I INTERRUPT FOR JUST A
SECOND?>>MAHEALANI: ACTUALLY, JUST
HANG ON JUST A SECOND. MR. ATTA, TAKE US THROUGH
THAT FIRST.>>THIS MAP THAT YOU SEE
BEFORE YOU, REALLY IS THE GREEN AREAS, THE AREAS
OUTSIDE OF THE CITY’S URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY.
THEY’RE THE HIGH QUALITY AG LANDS OUTSIDE OF THE URBAN
GROWTH BOUNDARY.>>MAHEALANI: YOU SEE THE
GREEN? THAT’S THE AREA THAT SUPPOSED TO BE PRESERVED.
WHAT ARE THED RED AREAS?>>RED AREAS ARE THE HIGHER
DENSITY AREAS. YOU’LL NOTICE THAT THEY’RE
INSIDE THE CIRCLES THAT ARE ON THE MAP.
CIRCLES REPRESENT THE QUARTER MILE AND THE HALF MILE RADIUS
OF THE TRANSIT STATION FOR THE NEW HART STATION THAT WILL BE
THERE.>>MAHEALANI: NOW, IF IT
WASN’T FOR THE COMMUNITY THOUGH, WOULD THIS GREENLAND,
WOULD THAT HAVEN IN THE ORIGINAL PLANS THOUGH?
>>ORIGINAL PLAN, ACTUALLY HAD ABOUT 100 ACRES OF AG
LAND, EVEN IN THE FIRST SERIES OF PLAN.
THAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE DISCUSSION IS THAT 100 ACRES
HAS ESSENTIALLY TUMBLED. SO THEY’RE NOW PRESERVING
ABOUT 200 ACRES. THAT HAD IN IMPACT.
>>OUT OF 15.>>MAHEALANI: YOU WANT TO JUMP
IN ON SOMETHING?>>YES.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT POPULATION PROJECTIONS ARE
DONE BASED, AT LEAST IN PART, ON WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION
INDUSTRY AND THE TOURIST INDUSTRY NEED AS FAR AS
GROWTH.>>FACTORED IN.
THAT, TO ME, SAYS THAT ULTIMATELY, THIS GREENLAND
WILL BE DEVELOPED LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN OUR
WAIAHOLE WATER CASE, THE HEAD OF CITY PLANNING WAS
TESTIFYING AND HE WAS SAYING HOW IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT
PLANS WERE AND HOW THIS WAS GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT
AGRICULTURE STAYED THERE, AND HE WAS ASKED, WELL, HOW MANY
DEVELOPMENTS HAVE BEEN TURNED DOWN IN CENTRAL OAHU.
AND HE SAID, THOUGHT FOR A WHILE, HE SAID ONE.
THEN ULTIMATELY, WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT DEVELOPMENT?
ULTIMATELY, IT WAS APPROVED. SO THAT’S BEEN KIND OF THE
STORY. EVERY DEVELOPMENT ULTIMATELY
GETS APPROVED BECAUSE QUESTION NEED THOSE KIND OF
THINGS.>>MAHEALANI: YOU SEE THINGS
FROM A STATEWIDE PERSPECTIVE AND YOU HAVE A MAP THAT SHOWS
AGRICULTURAL LANDS ON EVERY SINGLE ISLAND.
WHY DON’T YOU TALK ABOUT THAT.>>BEFORE I GET TO THAT, I JUST
WANTED TO COMMENT ON, IT’S AN UNFAIR CHARACTERIZATION TO
SAY ALL PROJECTS ARE PASSED. I WAS ASKED THAT PROJECT, HOW
MANY PROJECTS DO YOU NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF.
NONE BECAUSE THE ONES THAT MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROCESS,
GET TO THE DESK TO BE REVIEWED, THOSE ARE THE ONES
WHO GOT THROUGH THE FIRST RING OF REQUIREMENTS.
YOU DON’T GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU’RE BEING CONSIDERED
IF YOUR PROJECT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.
ONCE YOU GET THERE, TO THE COMMISSION, THE FOCUS IS NOT
THAT THE LAND USE COMMISSION TO DENY THE PROJECT.
IT’S HOW CAN THE PROJECT MOVE FORWARD WITH MITIGATION TO
REDUCE, AVOID, MITIGATE THE IMPACTS.
THAT THE PROJECT WILL CAUSE. THAT SYSTEM IS A SYSTEM THAT
IS DEVELOPED ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THE BASIS OF OUR ENVIRONMENTAL AND LAND USE
LAWS. ARE JUST THAT.
HUMANITY IS GOING TO HAVE SOME IMPACTS ON THE WORLD WE LIVE
IN. HOW DO WE MITIGATE, MINIMIZE
OR AVOID THOSE IMPACTS. UNLESS WE CHANGE THE
FRAMEWORK, RUBRIC, THAT’S WHAT IT IS.
>>MAHEALANI: CAN YOU TAKE US THROUGH YOUR MAP HERE.
THIS IS A STATEWIDE MAP THAT SHOWS SEVERAL GREEN AREAS
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE WERE SPEAKING EARLIER BEFORE THE
SHOW, YOU WERE THINKING THAT PEOPLE TEND TO SEE THINGS
REALLY LOCALIZED WHERE THERE IS A STATEWIDE PERSPECTIVE.
>>WHAT THIS MAP SHOWS IN THE STATE OF HAWAI’I, WE HAVE TWO
LAYERS OF ZONING. ZONING IS ORDINANCE AND STATE
LAW THAT TELLS YOU WHAT YOU CAN DO IN A PARTICULAR
DISTRICT. IN THE STATE ZONING LEVEL, WE
HAVE FOUR. AGRICULTURE, URBAN,
CONSERVATION, AND RURAL. WHERE 95% OF THE STATE IS IN
THE STATE AGRICULTURAL OR CONSERVATION DISTRICT.
>>MAHEALANI: THOSE ARE THE GREEN AREAS?
>>GREEN AND WHITE IS THE 95% OF THE STATE.
THE GREEN IS THAT AG. EQUALLY SPLIT BETWEEN THE
TWO. THIS IS ALL THE AGRICULTURAL
LAND IN THE STATE. NOT ALL THE AGRICULTURAL LAND
IS SUITABLE FOR AGRICULTURE. SIXTIES, LAND WAS PUT IN INTO
THE CLASSIFICATION CATEGORIES.
AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT WAS A CATCH-ALL DISTRICT.
DIDN’T FIT INTO CONSERVATION, WASN’T URBANIZED.
THERE IS A LOT OF AGRICULTURAL LAND ACROSS THE STATE.
I THINK TO HAVE A GOOD POLICY ABOUT FOOD SECURITY, HOW CAN
WE FEED OURSELVES IN THE STATE.
OR MAKE MONEY AS AN INDUSTRY OFF OF AG AGRICULTURE.
WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT AGRICULTURE IN THE CONTEXT
ENTIRE STATE.>>MAHEALANI: FOOD SECURITY,
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT PROFESSOR?
>>I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. REQUIRE MORE ATTENTION.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE STATE POPULATION PROJECTION
HAS TO BE FOLLOWED BY EVERYONE.
SO THE COUNTY TAKE THE STATE POPULATION PROJECTION AND THE
ONLY THINGS THEY CAN DO IS TO LOCATE THE NEXT POPULATION IN
THEIR JURISDICTION. I DON’T THINK IT’S CORRECT
THAT’S CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU CAN ESTABLISH A
DESIRABLE POPULATION LIKE THE STATE, PROVIDE INFORMATION,
AND THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD DO THAT, BUT I DON’T THINK THEY
DO IT ADEQUATELY. SO I AM AFRAID THAT VERY
COMPLICATED STATE, THEY DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAID.
IT’S NOT EXPLAIN IT VERY WELL. METHODOLOGIES.
SO THEY DON’T KNOW. BUT I SUSPECT THAT THEY GO AND
ASK TO THE LANDOWNER, — THEY ASK THE LANDOWNER, WHAT DO YOU
WANT TO DO WITH THIS LAND. ALL SUGAR LAND.
>>MAHEALANI: YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO RESPOND TO THAT.
>>THEY SAY, HOW IS IT –>>MAHEALANI: MR. ATTA?
>>THE PROJECTION, THAT PROJECTION GO INTO THE
INPUT –>>MAHEALANI: MR. ATTA, GO
AHEAD. THAT’S NOT CORRECT IN THE
SENSE THAT THE MODEL THAT WE HAD LOOKS AT THE LAND USES.
IT DOESN’T ASK THE LANDOWNERS WHAT’S YOUR DESIRE AND FACTOR
THAT IN.>>TALKING ABOUT THE OLD STATE
POPULATION PROJECTIONS.>>MAHEALANI: LET ME BRING THE
CONVERSATION. LET ME ASK MR. REPPUN.
DO WE HAVE ENOUGH FARM LAND ON OAHU AND THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS
TO FEED OURSELVES? THAT’S THE MOVEMENT NOW.
PEOPLE WANT TO STAY LOCAL. THEY WANT TO GROW LOCAL.
>>WELL, THERE’S A LOT OF ISSUES INVOLVED IN TRYING TO
ANSWER THAT QUESTION. IT’S NOT SO EASY TO ANSWER
EITHER. THERE’S WATER ISSUES.
AND LAND AVAILABILITY ISSUES. AND WHAT’S GOING TO DO THE
FARMING. AND THAT MAKES IT ALL QUITE
COMPLICATED. AND THEN IF YOU LOOK, IF
YOU’RE THINKING, THINKING GLOBALLY AGAIN, IF YOU LOOK AT
THE GLOBAL PICTURE AND YOU LOOK WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH
CLIMATE CHANGE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE WE
GOING TO BE ABLE TO RELY ON FOOD BEING PRODUCED IN OTHER
PLACES AND COMING HERE. MAYBE, MAYBE NOT.
DEPENDING ON THE CLIMATE. WHAT ABOUT HERE? WHAT ARE
OUR CLIMATE CHANGES WHICH ARE ALREADY HAPPENING HERE HOW
ARE THEY GOING TO AFFECT OUR FOOD PROJECTION? AND I THINK
IT’S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT A LOT OF THESE ISSUES.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE URBANIZATION ISSUE, CENTRAL VALLEY IN
CALIFORNIA, WHICH PRODUCES ABOUT A QUARTER OF THE
NATION’S FOOD, FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, IT’S BEING
URBANIZED AT THE RATE OF 15,000 ACRES A YEAR.
LAND IN THE UNITED STATES IS BEING URBANIZED AT THE RATE OF
2 FOOTBALL FIELDS OR 2 ACRES A MINUTE SINCE THE 70’S.
SO WE’RE LOSING ABOUT A MILLION ACRES A YEAR OF FARM
LAND. OF COURSE, UNITED STATES HAS
THE MOST BEST FARM LAND WITH THE BEST CLIMATE IN THE WORLD.
WHICH IS WHY WE CAN BRAG ABOUT BEING THE GREATEST NATION ON
EARTH BECAUSE OF THAT. BUT THAT’S IT’S TREND, THAT’S
WHAT’S GOING ON, THAT’S WHAT’S DRIVING THINGS.
SO WE REALLY NEED TO RELOOK AT AGRICULTURE.
ESPECIALLY THE KIND OF AGRICULTURE THAT WE’RE DOING.
AND.>>YOU ASKED IF WE HAD ENOUGH
LAND. STATISTICALLY, LOCAL FOOD
DIVERSIFIED FOOD PRODUCTION, PRODUCED IN HAWAI’I, OCCURS
ON 15,000 ACRES. AND THEY PRODUCE ABOUT 33% OF
THE FRESH PRODUCE THAT’S SOLD.
OF COURSE, THE MAJORITY STILL COMES FROM THE MAINLAND.
IT GIVES AWE A SENSE OF SCALE AND PROPORTION.
15,000 ACRES IS USED TO PRODUCE 32% OF THE FRESH
PRODUCE.>>ALSO IMPORTANT TO
REMEMBER, EVEN THOUGH THAT ONE-THIRD OF THAT 33% OF THE
PRODUCE, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
EATING, THEN THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.
BECAUSE WE’RE EATING ANYWHERE NEAR THE KIND OF DIET WE’RE
SUPPOSED TO BE EATING. IF YOU SAY, OH, PRODUCING
ONE-THIRD OF THE FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, IF WE’RE EATING
WHAT WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE EATING, THEN IT GOES DOWN TO
1/12.>>MAHEALANI: MR. SOUKI, YOU
WANTED TO JUMP IN.>>SHORT ANSWER TO THE
QUESTION IS WE DON’T KNOW. IT’S BECAUSE OUR STATE
POLICIES HAVE NOT BEEN SET UP IN A WAY TO ANSWER THE
QUESTION. HOW MUCH DO WE NEED TO PRODUCE
HERE. TO SUSTAIN OURSELVES.
THE WAY WE’VE COME AT THE PROBLEM, IS THE QUESTION HAS
BEEN HOW DO WE CONTINUE AGRICULTURE IN THE FACE OF THE
END OF LARGE AGRICULTURE. NO MORE SUGAR, NO MORE
PINEAPPLE. OUR STATE PLANNING ACT STILL
TALKS ABOUT PINEAPPLE AND SUGAR AS A PRIORITY.
HASN’T BEEN UPDATED IN A GENERATION.
WE DID A STUDY AT THE OFFICE OF PLANNING ABOUT WHAT YOU
WOULD NEED TO DO TO INCREASE FARMING ACTIVITY IN HAWAI’I.
AND WHEN WE DID THAT ANALYSIS, THE ONE THING WE DIDN’T DO IS
LOOK AT LAND BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WE SPENT AN INORDINANT
AMOUNT OF TIME IN HAWAI’I DEALING WITH THE FOOD ISSUE.
FOCUSING ON LAND. WHEN YOU’RE MISSING THE OTHER
TWO PARTS OF HE CAN NO, MA’AM PARTICULAR 101, WHICH IS
LAND, LABOR AND CAPITAL, WE HAVE A LOT OF LAND IN THE STATE
FOR AGRICULTURE. LIKE I SAID, 95% OF THE STATE
IS IN THE AG OR CONSERVATION DISTRICT, EQUALLY SPLIT
BETWEEN THE TWO. LABOR IS EXPENSIVE IN
HAWAI’I. WHAT KIND OF POLICIES ARE WE
GOING TO SET FORTH TO DEAL WITH THAT? CAPITAL, WHEN I
SAY CAPITAL, I MEAN GETTING A TRACTOR, FINANCING, GETTING
THE WATER SYSTEMS THAT ARE CRUMBLING IN THE STATE TO FEED
AND PROVIDE CHEAP WATER TO FARMERS WHO WANT TO FARM.
HOW ARE WE DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES? THOSE ARE THE KIND
OF ISSUES THAT THE STRATEGY RECOMMENDED, AND NEED TO BE
IMPLEMENTED REALLY. WE SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON THE
LAND USE QUESTION.>>MAHEALANI: PROFESSOR, DO
YOU THINK THERE’S A WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS? DOES IT HAVE
TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER, AG OR HOUSING?
>>EXACTLY. I WANT TO GO TO THAT POINT.
WE NEED, OF COURSE, BOTH. WE LOST SO MUCH OPEN SPACE AND
LAND FOR AGRICULTURE, TRYING TO ARGUE BETWEEN NEED THAT LED
FOR AGRICULTURE. WE NEED THE OTHER SUBJECT THAT
IS WE DO NOT NEED TO PLAN HUMAN SETTLEMENT IN CITY.
WITH CONTINENTAL TYPE OF DENSITY.
THE TYPE OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU SEE HERE IN THE CITY
& COUNTY OF HONOLULU UNFORTUNATELY IS LOW DENSITY
LOAD — URBANIZATION, OF THE SMALL ECOLOGICAL ISLAND IN
CENTRAL OAHU, AND THEN HIGH DENSITY, HIGHRISE, DOWNTOWN
IN THE RESIDENTIAL LOT IN KAKAAKO, THESE ARE THE TWO
VERY BAD TYPE OF BUILDING TYPE AND DENSITIES IF YOU BUILD TOO
MUCH OF IT. WHAT WE ARE MISSING HERE —
>>MAHEALANI: HANG ON. COUPLE OF QUESTIONS NOW
BECAUSE WE’RE GETTING —WE’VE GOT A LOT OF
QUESTIONS COMING IN FROM THE VIEWERS.
I APOLOGIZE FOR CUTTING YOU OFF.
WE’VE GOT TO GET TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS. ONE OF THEM IS
COMING FROM GLENN IN KAILUA. GLENN WANTS TO KNOW, IS
HO’OPILI DEVELOPMENT ONLY FOR LOCALS OR OUTSIDERS? SOME
PEOPLE ARE I THINKING THESE PEOPLES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE.
CAN LOCAL FOLKS AFFORD THIS. MR. ATTA?
>>HOUSING, AT LEAST MARKET PRICE OBVIOUSLY, WILL BE
DETERMINED AT THE TIME THE CONSTRUCTION OCCURS.
BUT THE TARGET THAT HO’OPILI PROJECT IS MOSTLY, I WOULD SAY
IS MOSTLY FOR LOCAL PEOPLE. OBVIOUSLY, ANYBODY CAN BUY
THEM. I CAN’T SAY BECAUSE I JUST
KNOW THAT IT KEEPS FLUCTUATING, BUT I KNOW THE
TARGET HAS BEEN MORE IN THE MIDDLE INCOME GROUPS.
>>BUT THE TRUTH OF MATTER IS MOST JOBS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, I
THINK IT’S NATIONWIDE, IT’S SOMETHING LIKE 85% OF JOBS ARE
LESS THAN THIRTY DOLLARS AN HOUR.
62% OF JOBS ARE LESS THAN TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR.
AND IN ORDER TO AFFORD A MEDIAN INCOME FOR A MEDIAN
PRICE HOME ON OAHU, I THINK IS LIKE $630,000.
TO AFFORD SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU HAVE TO MAKE 50,000.
THAT MEANS IF YOU’RE DOING, IF YOU’RE A FARMER, FARMERS,
THEY DON’T MAKE ANY MORE THAN HOTEL WORKERS MAKE.
THEY MAKE LIKE $25,000. THAT’S ONE OF THE BIG
OBSTACLES WHEN YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT LABOR AND ISSUES LIKE
THAT. FARMING IS BASICALLY ONE OF
THE LOW INCOME JOBS.>>
>>MAHEALANI: PROFESSOR, DO YOU THINK PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO
MOVE INTO THESE DEVELOPMENTS?>>OF COURSE.
NEWSPAPER RECENTLY, YOU DON’T NEED HOUSING NEED OF OUR LOCAL
PEOPLE BUILDING — HOUSING. FOR EVERY HOUSING THAT GOES
UP, A PIECE OF LAND IS LOST AND URBAN AREA FOR THE LOCAL
PEOPLE.>>THIS IS NOT LUXURY HOUSING.
>>MAHEALANI: MR. SOUKI, WE’LL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE
AGRICULTURE LANDS THAT IS TRULY AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW FOR
THE FARMERS. AND YOU KNOW, OBJECT
OBVIOUSLY, FROM THE STATE WIDE PERSPECTIVE, WE KEEP
ZONING IN ON OAHU, BUT THERE’S ALL OF THESE OTHER PROJECTS
HAPPENING ON THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS AS WELL.
>>WELL, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HAD
IN OUR FOOD SECURITY STRATEGY WAS CONTINUING TO INVEST IN
STATE OWN AGRICULTURAL LANDS AND HUNDREDS OF ACRES OF
AGRICULTURAL LANDS FOR PEOPLE INTERESTED IN FARMING.
PART OF GETTING FARM LAND AVAILABLE FOR FARMING
REQUIRES INVESTMENT IN SYSTEMS THAT CONVEY WATER TO
THE LAND. S THE LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW IS
TALKING ABOUT AN IDEA LAND SWAP WITH CASTLE & COOKE THAT
WILL BRING A LOT MORE LAND ON THE STATE SIDE TO MAKE IT
AVAILABLE FOR LEASES. AND SOME OF THE CONVERSATION
IS INTERESTING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SKEPTICAL, MAYBE CASTLE &
COOKE A DEAL, BUT THE CONCEPT IS WE’RE PRIORITIZING AS A
POLICY THAT AG IS A GOOD THING.
SO MAYBE IT’S GOOD THAT WE INVEST IN LAND EXCHANGE TO GET
MORE LAND THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR FARMING.
>>MAHEALANI: ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE JUST
RECEIVED, SOMEONE SAYS, DIRECTING GROWTH TO EWA IS
BASED ON POPULATION MODEL. ARE THEY OUT OF DATE?
MR. ATTA?>>IT’S NOT BASED ON MODEL.
IT’S BASED ON THE POLICY THAT WAS ESTABLISHED.
THE POLICY THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE GENERAL
PLAN IN THE 70’S, DIRECTED IT TO EWA.
SO THAT’S WHAT IS DIRECTING IT.
NOT THE MODEL THAT’S DIRECTING IT.
>>MAHEALANI: PROFESS,, GO AHEAD.
>>I THINK WE ARE MISSING TOTALLY A SUBJECT.
WE ARE ASKING CAN WE PUT HOUSING ON THE BEST
AGRICULTURAL LAND ON THE STATE OF HAWAI’I.
THE QUESTION IS, WHY DON’T WE PUT HOUSING WITHIN THE
ORIGINAL URBAN DISTRICT OF 1970.
CHIEF PLANNER BACK THEN IN THE 70’S, I THINK, STATE THAAD
THERE WASN’T ENOUGH ZONED LAND WITHOUT THE NEED TO
REDISTRICTING AGRICULTURAL LAND FOR URBAN USE IN CENTRAL
OAHU. I THINK DIDN’T LAST LONG ON
THE JOB. THE QUESTION IS, CAN WE BUILT,
REDEEM THAT HONOLULU PROPER AND WAIPAHU WITH URBAN FILL?
WE DON’T HAVE THE PROPER TOOL TO DO PLANNING CORRECTLY.
WITH URBAN RENEWAL AND URBAN FILL.
WE DON’T HAVE THE JAPANESE LAND ADJUSTMENT SYSTEM.
THAT EXISTS IN MANY COUNTRIESES.
WE HAVE, ON THE BOOK OF TRANSFER OF THE — BUT WE
DON’T REALLY IMPLEMENT. SO WE ARE MISSING THE TOOLS
FOR THE PROPER PLANNING OF THE CITY WITH A GROUP URBAN FORM,
THAT PROVIDES DENSITY THAT’S HUMAN SCALE, DENSITY
ORIENTATION. ABILITY AND MAKE IT PUBLIC
TRANSIT IN URBAN HONOLULU A PHYSICAL.
WE DID EVERYTHING WRONG.>>MAHEALANI: WE’RE TALKING
ABOUT HOUSING AND FOOD. SO WHICH DOES HAWAI’I NEED
MORE? PLEASE JOIN US TONIGHT BY OUR CONVERSATION BY
CALLING, E-MAILING OR TWEETING YOUR QUESTIONS AND
COMMENTS. YOU CAN CALL 973-1000 IF YOU
LIVE ON OAHU AND 1800-283-4847 IF YOU’RE ON A
NEIGHBOR ISLAND. MR. SOUKI, KNOW YOU WANTED TO
JUMP IN. GO AHEAD.
>>I THINK THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS ABOUT WHY
DEVELOPMENT IS HAPPENING OUT IN EWA.
GEORGE CAN MAYBE SPEAK FOR MORE TO THIS, BUT THAT’S PART
OF THE GENERAL PLAN. BIG PLANNING ACT IS MORE THAN
THE HAWAI’I REVISED STATUTES WITH A LIST OF THINGS THAT
PEOPLE ASPIRE TO WANT TO HAVE IN THE FUTURE OF HAWAI’I.
IT’S A STATEWIDE PLANNING SYSTEM.
THE STATE WIDE PLANNING SYSTEM REQUIRES THAT THE
COUNTIES BASE ZONING ON GENERAL AND COMMUNITY PLANS.
THESE GENERAL AND COMMUNITY PLANS ARE THE PEOPLE’S PLANS.
THEY GO THROUGH MANY PUBLIC MEETINGS.
PLANNING COMMISSION. NEIGHBORHOOD BOARDS.
FINALLY, ADOPTED AT THE COUNCIL.
MORE PLANNING MEETINGS. WHERE THIS URBAN CORE WAS SET
UP AND OUTLINED. URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARIES FOR
SEVERAL DECADES, HAS BEEN THAT WAY.
IT’S OUT IN EWA. THAT’S THE SECOND CITY.
THAT WHAT’S WHAT PEOPLE DECIDED.
I WASN’T HERE WHEN ALL OF THAT HAPPENED, BUT THAT WAS THE
PROCESS AND THE PLANS THAT WERE LAID IN PLACE.
THE IDEA IS IF YOU FOLLOW THE PLAN, AND YOU HAVE DENSITY IN
THAT CORRIDOR, YOU PRESERVE THE NORTH SHORE AND OTHER
AREAS OF THE ISLAND. WHERE YOU HAVE LESS OF RURAL
TYPE DEVELOPMENT.>>VERY INTERESTING.
IT’S WORTH STUDYING. THIS DEVELOPMENT PLAN, AFTER
ALL THE COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION — PEOPLE
TOGETHER WITH THE DEVELOPER IN THE BACK ROOM, CHANGE SO
MUCH, THAT THE NUMBER OF COUNCIL PEOPLE DIDN’T GET
RE-ELECTED. TWO OF THE GOVERNMENT PLAN GOT
SUSTAINED AND OTHERS DIDN’T GET SUSTAINED.
SO THAT’S WHY THE HISTORY BOTH DEVELOPMENT IS VERY
IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU CAN FIND THIS.
SO THE URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY, I THINK IS KIND OF RIDICULOUS
BECAUSE THEY SUPER URBANIZE IT.
THE THEY MADE THE URBAN, COUNTY, ALL THIS LAND TOWARDS
THE BEST AGRICULTURAL LAND. FOR URBANIZATION, NOT FOR
PLANNING CITIES.>>MAHEALANI: I WANTED TO GET
TO SOME MORE QUESTIONS. JOANNA FROM HAWAII KAI, SAYS
WHAT DOES SUSTAINABILITY MEAN FOR DEVELOPMENT AND FARMING?
DO YOU THINK THAT SUSTAINABILITY GOES WITH
DEVELOPMENT AND FARMING? MR. REPPUN?
>>WELL, SUSTAINABILITY AND FARMING IS ONE QUESTION.
THAT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE KIND OF FARMING THAT GO GOES
ON. AND THE KIND OF FARMING THAT
WE, THAT’S HAPPENED IN THE UNITED STATES, AT LEAST RIGHT
AFTER WORLD WAR II, WITH THE BASICALLY THE INVENTION OF
NITROGEN FERTILIZER, THAT TOTALLY CHANGED FARMING AND
IT BASICALLY GOT PEOPLE OFF THE LAND, AND CHANGED THE
WHOLE TREATMENT OF THE LAND. WHEN PEOPLE FIRST, WHEN
EUROPEANS FIRST ARRIVED IN AMERICA, THE AVERAGE DEPTH OF
TOPSOIL IN THE UNITED STATES WAS ABOUT 18 INCHES.
TODAY, IT’S AROUND 6 INCHES OR LESS.
THAT KIND OF AGRICULTURE, THAT NITROGEN AND THINGS WERE
GOOD, UP UNTIL THAT NITROGEN FERTILIZER WAS INVENTED.
BUT AFTER THAT, WE SWITCHED FROM A MANURE DIVERSIFIED
CROPS, COVER CROPS, WE SWITCHED FROM THAT KIND OF
AGRICULTURE TO BASICALLY MONOAGRICULTURE.
MINING OUR SOIL FOR QUITE A NUMBER OF DECADES NOW.
THAT DEBT IS GOING TO COME DUE.
WE NEED TO CHANGE THE KIND OF AGRICULTURE THAT WE DO.
WE NEED TO GO BACK TO A DIFFERENT KIND OF
AGRICULTURE. AND PART OF GOING BACK TO THAT
KIND OF AGRICULTURE HAS TO DO WITH GOING BACK TO A DIFFERENT
KIND OF LABOR FORCE. RIGHT NOW, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
GROWING OUR FOOD IS LIKE LETS THAN 2% OF THE POPULATION.
AND A LOT OF THE LABOR FORCE IS MIGRANT WORKERS AND THEY
WORK UNDER HORRIBLE CONDITIONS.
THAT KIND OF FARMING IS CONSIDERED THE MOST DANGEROUS
OCCUPATION IN THE WORLD. BECAUSE OF THE PESTICIDES AND
THE HERBICIDES AND ALL OF THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
SO IF WE GO BACK TO A DIFFERENT KIND OF FARMING, WE’RE
TALKING ABOUT A KIND OF LAND USE THAT’S MUCH DIFFERENT
FROM WHAT WE HAVE NOW. AND IT’S INTERESTING THAT
AFTER THE SUGAR COMPANIES KIND OF WENT OUT OF BUSINESS,
I’M LOOKING AT THE LABOR ISSUE HERE.
WHEN THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, OR GOING OUT OF
BUSINESS, THERE WAS A REPORT DONE BY THE STATE FOR THE
SUGAR COMPANIES. THE RECOMMENDATION OF THIS
REPORT WAS THAT IF THE SUGAR COMPANIES, OR SORRY, THE
LANDOWNERS WHO WERE LEASING TO THE SUGAR COMPANIES, WHEN
THE SUGAR COMPANIES WENT OUT AND THE LAND OWNEDDERS NOW
THIS THEIR LAND AGAIN, THE RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT IF
THEY’RE GOING TO LEASE THIS LAND OUT TO FARMERS, DON’T LET
THEM LIVE ON THAT LAND. BECAUSE WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IS
WHAT HAPPENED IN WAIAHOLE VALLEY.
WHEN YOU WANT TO EVICT THEM TO URBANIZE YOUR LAND, YOU WON’T
BE ABLE TO GET THEM OFF.>>MAHEALANI: WE’VE GOT SOME
QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO DID WITH TRAFFIC.
OBVIOUSLY SHALL THE TRAFFIC ISSUE WILL COME UP.
SOMEONE SAID, DO WE NEED MORE HOUSING? DO WE NEIDHARDT
HOUSING IN AREAS WITHOUT HARVEY HOUR, OR HOUR LONG
COMMUTES? MR. ATTA, IN TERM OF TRAFFIC ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY,
KAPOLEI WAS DEVELOPED TO DEAL WITH THIS.
DO YOU THINK KAPOLEI IS WHERE IT SHOULD BE TODAY AND HOW DO
YOU RESPOND TO THIS TRAFFIC QUESTION THAT CONTINUALLY
COMES UP?>>I THINK IT’S RELATED
OBVIOUSLY TO THE LEVEL OF DENSITY OF DEVELOPMENT AND
THE AUTOMOBILE LIFESTYLE THAT WE HAVE.
SO HOPEFULLY, NORMALLY, WITH PEOPLE COMES CONGESTION.
JUST A SYMBOL OF CONGESTION ON THE TYPE OF MODE THAT WE USE
FOR TRAVELING. AT THE CITY, WE’RE TRYING TO
SHIFT TO A MULTIMODAL SYSTEM. OBVIOUSLY THE RAIL IS PART OF
IT. SHIFT TO MULTIMODAL AND TRY TO
GET OFF THE RELIANCE ON THE CAR.
AND HOW SUCCESSFUL WE’LL BE, WILL DEPEND ON HOW WELL THE
MULTIMODAL SYSTEM IS DESIGNED.
SO YES, CONGESTION IS GOING TO BE THERE.
AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THE IDEA IS TO DENSIFY AN AREA, THAT
MEANS WE’RE INTENTIONALLY TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE INTO
THE AREA. SO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS
ISSUE. BUT AGAIN, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
TRAFFIC AS CARS, THE CAR CENTRIC, LIFESTYLE IS PART OF
WHAT WE’RE TRYING TO GET OFF OF IT AND ONE WAY TO GET OFF
OF IT IS TO PUT JOBS AND HOUSES CLOSE TOGETHER.
SO YOU CAN LIVE AND WORK IN THE SAME PLACE AND YOU DON’T HAVE
TO SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES AND COMMUTING BACK AND FORTH TO
WORK. BY CREATING COMMUNITIES THAT
ARE MORE HOLISTIC, LIVE, PLAY KIND OF CONCEPT, I THINK YOU
CAN REDUCE SOME OF IT.>>MAHEALANI: MR. SOUKI, DO
YOU THINK KAPOLEI HAS LIVED UP TO THE PROMISE AS BEING TRULY
SECOND CITY?>>COUPLE OF THINGS.
FIRST THING, IT’S GROWING AND DEVELOPING CITY.
SO IT’S NOT THERE YET. BUT THE PLANS AND PERMITS THAT
ARE IN PLACE FOR THESE PROJECTS THAT ARE PROPOSED
AND APPROVED, THEY COME WITH A MANY CONDITIONS.
LITANY OF CONDITIONS. ALL OF THE PROJECTS, HO’OPILI
AND THE OTHERS IN THE AREA, HAVE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THEY
NEED TO MAKE FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO ROADS IN THE AREA.
THEY WILL MEET THE IMPACT THAT THE PROJECTS ARE CAUSING
UNDER THE LAW, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO DO THAT THEY’RE
GOING TO DID THAT. WHAT’S MORE INTERESTING TO ME
IS WHAT GEORGE TALKED ABOUT. OUR INVOLVING COMMUNITY HERE.
SOON, I THINK WE’LL HAVE THE RAIL IN PLACE.
HOPEFULLY. I’M A SUPPORTER OF RAIL.
HAVING TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT AROUND THE
STATIONS AND KEEPING COMMUNITIES DENSE SO THAT
THEY CAN USE THE RAIL INSTEAD OF DRIVING PROVIDES PEOPLE
WITH THE OPTION OF NOT GETTING INTO THE CAR.
STATISTICS, SHOW OF USE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, WHY
YOU SEE THEM 14,000 A YEAR, BIG DEAL FOR A FAMILY WHO’S
MAKING THE MEDIAN INCO. TRANSIT CAN REALLY CHANGE THE
WAY WE LIVE AND THE WAY THAT THINGS ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT
SPRAWL. BRING THINGS BACK IN IN THE
URBAN CORE. SO THAT PRESERVES —
>>MAHEALANI: I SEE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD.
WHY IS THAT?>>I WROTE A SHORT ARTICLE FOR
THE HONOLULU ARCHITECT ABOUT DESIGNING HONOLULU FOR THE
MASS TRANSIT. BACK IN THE SEVENTIES, THE
ISSUE WAS WE BUILD — OR NOT. TRANSPORTATION POLICY, GOING
THIS WAY AND LAND POLICY GOING THIS WAY, I SAID WE SHOULD PUT
IT TOGETHER. WE SHOULD NOT CREATE URBAN
SPRAWL BY CHANGING THE ZONING FROM AGRICULTURE TO — BUT
BUILD A LINEAR CITY AND MASS TRANSIT THAT SHOULD START
FROM WAIKIKI TO THE AIRPORT, UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI’I,
PROVIDE PUBLIC TRANSIT SLOW WAY, NOT FAST, WHERE YOU
ALREADY HAD THE DENSITY, PEOPLE WILL, DON’T HAVE TO BUY
SO MANY CARS. AND THEN EXPAND THE CITY.
NO NEED TO GO TO CENTRAL OAHU NEIGHBORHOOD.
I BELIEVE THAT SO MUCH SO, THAT I WAS KINDLY ASKED TO
HELP PLAN THE NEWTOWN AND I DECLINED BECAUSE THOUGHT IT
WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE. NOW, I’M PAYING AS A TAXPAYER
THE INCREDIBLE COST OF THE URBANIZATION AND MASS TRANSIT
TO MAY BANKRUPT HONOLULU.>>MAHEALANI: MR. REPPUN.
>>PARALLEL BETWEEN H-3 AND THE RAIL, TO ME, ARE
INTERESTING BECAUSE WHEN H-3 WAS ORIGINALLY DREAMT UP, THE
WHOLE IDEA WAS TO DEVELOP THE WINDWARD SIDE OF THE ISLAND.
THEY WANTED TO MAKE A DEEP DRAFT HARBOR IN KAHALUU AND
WANTED TO MAKE A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN HE’EIA.
THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF H-3. BUT ULTIMATELY, THE PURPOSE
OF. H-3 WAS TO GENERATE, AGAIN,
CONSTRUCTION JOBS AND THAT’S WHAT IT CAME DOWN TO IN THE
END, IS PEOPLE FOUGHT AGAINST H-3.
THEY FOUGHT AGAINST IT, SAID WE DIDN’T NEED IT.
AND WHAT IT CAME DOWN TO IS THEY SAID, WELL, WE NEED THE
JOBS. AND SO ENDED UP ATTACHING A
RIDER TO THE ENTIRE FEDERAL BUDGET EXEMPTING H-3 FROM ANY
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT.
IT WAS A DONE DEAL. EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY BECAUSE
JOBS.>>YOU SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING.
REAL ESTATE 101. MILILANI TOWN, ALL THE LAND
BETWEEN MILILANI TOWN AND HONOLULU IS IN DEMAND OF
EVERYBODY POTENTIALLY URBAN. REGARDLESS OF THE ZONING.
SO THE ZONING DON’T COUNT FOR ANYTHING BECAUSE THE LAND USE
ARE — ANYWAY, THEN YOU GET THE ZONING, LANDOWNER BECOME
WITHOUT THE ZONING — THAT’S WHAT WE SAW.
WHAT ABOUT URBANIZATION. ZONING TO URBAN, TO ALL OF
CENTRAL OAHU. HAD THE MOUNTAINS AND NORTH
SHORE THAT IS STILL –>>MAHEALANI: I WANT TO GET TO
ANOTHER QUESTION. SORT OF A COMMENT AT THE SAME
TIME FROM MICHAEL. HE SAYS, GROWTH EVER BE
CONTROLLED WHEN WE HAVE FINITE LAND AND WATER IN
HAWAI’I? MR. SOUKI? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
>>WELL, I THINK THE WAY WE’RE GROWING IS CHANGING.
DEFINITELY. I GREW UP ON MAUI AND A LOT OF
THE SUBDIVISIONS THERE WERE SORT OF THESE CLASSIC 70’S,
SPRAWLED OUT COMMUNITIES. OAHU, BUILDING MORE DENSE.
KAKAAKO BUILDING DENSER. AS LAND BECOMES DENSER.
AS LAND BECOMES MORE CONSTRAINED, WE’LL HAVE TO
BUILD DENSER. THIS ISSUE OF POPULATION
GROWTHS AND CARRYING CAPACITY, IT COMES ON A LOT.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE CAN’T CONTROL POPULATION
GROWTH UNLESS WE TAKE ON EXTREME POLICIES THAT I DON’T
THINK PEOPLE HAVE THE STOMACH FOR.
SO WE NEED TO LIVE BETTER. WE NEED TO LIVE MORE
SUSTAINABLY. WE NEED TO LIVE WITHIN THE
LIMITS OF OUR RESOURCES WE NEED TO PLAN FOR FUTURE
GROWTH. WE NEED TO PLAN FOR THE BABIES
THAT ARE COMING. THIS HO’OPILI PROJECT, I’M
NOT SPEAKING FOR OR AGAINST IT.
BUT IT IS MEETING A NEED IN ENTITLEMENT, DECISION AND
ORDER, ALMOST 200 PAGES FROM THE LAND USE COMMISSION.
ONE OF THE STUDIES SHOW FOR THE NEED FOR HOUSING FOR 2030
WILL BE 29,000 HOMES FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND HO’OPILI IS PROVIDING ABOUT 11,000.
SO HOUSING IS NEEDED. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT, WE’RE
NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT BIRTHS OR MIGRATION.
>>WE’RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY THREE
FAMILIES TO A HOUSE RIGHT NOW. THAT’S WHAT WE’RE TALKING
ABOUT.>>MAHEALANI: MIKE OF HAWAII
KAI, I’LL DIRECT THIS QUESTION TO MR. ATTA.
ARE THESE DEVELOPERS REQUIRED TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE COST OF
RAIL?>>NOT DIRECTLY.
LIKE ANYBODY ELSE, LIKE ANYBODY ELSE SINCE THE RAIL
HAS HALF PERCENT TAX THAT THEY’LL CONTRIBUTE LIKE
ANYBODY ELSE WITH THE G.E.T. BUT THEY’RE NOT CONTRIBUTING
TO THE HART OR THE STATION DESIGNS.
BECAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE ALL WITHIN THE CURRENT BUSINESS
PLAN. CURRENT BUSINESS PLAN DOES
NOT ASK THE LANDOWNERS YET TO CONTRIBUTE.
>>MAHEALANI: THERE HASN’T BEEN ANY, LET’S SAY, PUBLIC
POLLING ON THIS. I’M READING QUESTION AFTER
QUESTION AFTER QUESTION. A LOT OF THESE STATEMENTS HERE
SEEMED TO BE ANTI-DEVELOPMENT, BUT WHAT DO
YOU THINK IS REALLY THE GENERAL FEELING OUT THERE?
IS IT HARD TO TELL BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, OPPONENTS WILL BE
A LOT MORE VOCAL THEN. THAN PEOPLE WHO ARE
PROPONENTS OF A PROJECT. MR. ATTA?
>>I THINK, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS A LOT MORE
NUANCED. FOR DEVELOPMENT AGAINST
DEVELOPMENT. SOME PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT HO
PELE AND HAVE A SPECIFIC OPINION ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THERE IS A KIND OF FATIGUE ABOUT THIS COMING
WITH A LOT OF THE CONSTRUCTS THAT’S GOING ON.
ESPECIALLY WITH IT. I THINK IT’S COMPREHENSIVE.
YOU SEE THE BOOM IN BUILDING IN KAKAAKO AND WAIKIKI,
THAT’S CAUSES THE KIND OF GETTING A LITTLE BIT.
SO THERE’S THAT KIND OF GENERAL FEELING MAYBE WE’RE
GOING TOO FAST, TOO MUCH TOO FAST.
AND I THINK THERE’S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT FATIGUE.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE’S ALSO, I THINK AND THE OTHER
THING OF THAT, IS THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION, ALL ALONG THE
CORRIDOR. EVERYTHING FROM WAIANAE TO
EAST HONOLULU. SO THOSE THINGS, I THINK, MAKE
PEOPLE A LITTLE TIRED OF DEVELOPMENT.
AT THE SAME TIME, THE NEEDS IS OBVIOUSLY ALSO THERE.
WHETHER YOU CALL IT CONSTRUCTION JOBS OR PEOPLE
DOUBLING UP, TRIPLING UP, AND BEING CRAMPED IN HOUSING.
THAT NEED IS ALSO THERE.>>MAHEALANI: MR. REPPUN,
WHAT TO DO? THERE IS THIS FATIGUE BUT HOUSING DEMAND
REMAINS VERY, VERY STRONG.>>WELL, MAYBE THE ONLY KIND
OF HOUSING WE SHOULD BE BILLING IS FOR PEOPLE WHO
REALLY NEED IT. MAYBE WE NEED TO BE MUCH MORE
CREATIVE IN THE DESIGN AND THE DENSITY AND LOW RISE LIKE HE
WAS TALKING ABOUT, LOW RISE DENSITY.
>>HIGH DENSITY, LOW DENSITY.>>YEAH.
STUDENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI’I, AGRICULTURAL
STUDENT, DID A REDESIGN OF PART OF HONOLULU.
SUBURBAN AREA. REDESIGNED IT.
DOUBLED THE DENSITY AND DOUBLED THE AMOUNT OF OPEN
SPACE. AND SO THERE’S A LOT OF
CREATIVITY THAT CAN HAPPEN OUT THERE.
MAYBE WE NEED CONSTRUCTION JOBS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH
REDESIGNING COMMUNITIES OR REBUILDING COMMUNITIES OR TAX
BREAKS FOR PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATE IN REDESIGN AND
BUILDING. I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW
HOW MANY LOCAL PEOPLE ACTUALLY END UP AT HO’OPILI.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE REALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO LIVE THERE
AND AFFORD LIVING THERE. IT’S INTERESTING THAT IN THE
LATE 90’S, THAT WAS THE FIRST AND PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY TIME
SINCE STATEHOOD THAT HAWAI’I’S POPULATION GROWTH
RATE ALMOST WAS AT ZERO. AND THAT WAS WHEN LINDA LINGLE
GOT ELECTED. MAUI WAS WAS STILL BOOMING,
BUT HONOLULU WAS REALLY THE POPULATION GROWTH WAS ALMOST
ZERO. AND PEOPLE WERE GOING, WHAT
ARE WE GOING TO DO? BECAUSE THE JOBS WEREN’T THERE.
SO THERE WAS VERY LARGE MIGRATION OF CONSTRUCTION
WORKERS TO PLACES LIKE VEGAS OR PLACES LIKE THAT.
WHERE THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY.
YOU HAVE THIS MOVEMENT OF WORKERS TO THOSE PLACES WHERE
THE POPULATION IS GROWING REALLY FAST.
SO LAS VEGAS WAS LIKE 50,000 PEOPLE A YEAR WERE MOVING
THERE. AND SO THESE WORKERS WERE
MOVING THERE BASICALLY TO BUILD HOUSES FOR WORKERS WHO
ARE WERE MOVING THERE. THAT’S THE TREND NATIONWIDE.
>>MAHEALANI: ALAN FROM KAILUA BRINGS UP SOMETHING REALLY
INTERESTING. REAL ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS
HOW MANY LIMITS CAN WE PUT ON POPULATION GROWTH.
WE KEEP BUILDING BECAUSE THERE’S NO LIMITING THE
POPULATION. YOUR THOUGHTS, MR. SOUKI, ON
THAT?. SORT OF WHAT I WAS TALKING
ABOUT WHEN I TALKED ABOUT CARRYING CAPACITY STUDIES.
GOOD TO UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF GROWTH IN POPULATION WE CAN
EXPECT SO THAT WE CAN PLAN FOR.
BUT IT’S DIFFICULT TO PUT A CAP ON IT.
A LOT OF THE ZERO GROWTH THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT WAS BECAUSE
THE ECONOMY WAS BAD AND PEOPLE WERE MOVING OFF OF JOBS.
THOSE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ACTUALLY PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY,
AND THEY HAVE BEEN HERE FOR GENERATIONS.
I HOPE THAT THEY DON’T HAVE TO MOVE.
MAYBE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON PEOPLE NOT SHUTTING DOWN
CONSTRUCTION. AND I DON’T AGREE WITH THE
ARGUMENT THAT THINGS BUILT IN HAWAII JUST BECAUSE OF
CONSTRUCTION JOBS. THERE’S A NEED FOR SOME OF
THESE THINGS, MARKET THAT NEEDS TO BE MET.
>>WHAT WE SEE IN KAKAAKO.>>IF POLICY WANTS IT SUCH
THAT WE INCENTIVIZE THE MARKET TO PRODUCE OTHER
THINGS, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE’S A GAP IN AFFORDABLE
HOUSING THAT NEEDS TO BE MET IN THE STATE OF HAWAI’I.
IF WE WANT TO INCENTIVIZE THE MARKET BECAUSE IT’S PRIVATE
DEVELOPERS WHO BUILD IT, IF YOU WANT TO INCENTIVIZE THEM
TO BUILD IT, GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO HAVE TO INVEST IN
THAT LIKE THEY DO IN EVERY OTHER MUNICIPALITY IN THE
COUNTRY, INVEST PUBLIC TREASURE IN DEVELOPING
AFFORDABLE HOUSING.>>INTERESTING, YOU SAY
THEY’RE INVESTING MEGA BUILDINGS FOR MILLIONAIRE IN
KAKAAKO, ONLY VERY SOPHISTICATED CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY CAN DO, AND ZONING THE STATE, NOT THE COUNTY,
PROVIDE INCENTIVES TO BUILD VERY BIG BIDDING, LARGE.
IF IT’S MORE, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD MORE IN TERMS
OF –>>YOU HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE
KAKAAKO, THEY REA RESERVE HOUSING POLICY.
WHICH REQUIRES DEVELOPERS TO SET A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE
PROJECT FOR AFFORDABLE. IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THE FOR
AFFORDABLE, YOU HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE IT BY THE DEVELOPER
OR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO SUBSIDIZE IT.
VERY POORLY IMPLEMENTED ON OAHU BECAUSE DEVELOPER DON’T
BUILD IT, THE SAY THE MARKET CHANGE, THAT’S WHAT’S
HAPPENING.>>
>>MAHEALANI: GO AHEAD. SHAKING YOUR HEAD.
>>HALEKAUWILA PLACE IS IN KAKAAKO.
AFFORDABLE RENTALS. 801 SOUTH STREET IS RESERVE
HOUSE. BUILDING 2000.
AND WE LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO BUY IT.
95% LOCAL.>>MAHEALANI: THIS IS, SORT OF
MOVING INTO THE ISSUE OF KAKAAKO.
BECAUSE YOU BRING THAT UP. THERE ARE A LOT OF UNITS THERE
THAT ARE MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE.>>IT IS.
YEAH. THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT
THAT. I SEEM TO REMEMBER ABOUT
HOUSING. IN HAWAI’I.
WE’RE IN A GLOBAL MARKET. THERE IS NOT PURE LOCAL MARKET
AND THAT’S UNFORTUNATE THING BECAUSE THE KIND OF PRESSURES
AND DEMAND COMES FROM, GLOBAL NETWORK AND SO CLEARLY, IT
RAISES PRICES UP. TREMENDOUS DEMAND FOR, I
THINK HONOLULU IS ONE OF THE THREE HOTTEST MARKETS IN THE
COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. AND THAT WILL RAISE PRICES UP.
WHENEVER YOU HAVE HIGH DEMAND, IT WILL RAISE THE
PRICE. I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO
THE BEGINNING KIND OF. THINK GLOBALLY.
ACT LOCALLY. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT
WOULD OUR ECONOMY, WHAT WOULD LIFE LOOK LIKE HERE IN THE
ISLANDS IF WE DID HAVE A STABLE POPULATION.
WHAT WOULD PEOPLE DO. WHAT KIND OF WORK WOULD THEY
DO. HOW WOULD THEY LIVE.
WE NEED TO THINK GLOBALLY IF WE’RE LOOKING AT CLIMATE
CHANGE STUFF, MOST OF CLIMATE CHANGE, MOST OF THE PROBLEM
WILL IS CAUSED BY THE WEALTHIEST NATIONS.
ESPECIALLY THE UNITED STATES. THAT’S NOT A POPULATION
ISSUE. THAT’S THE KIND OF LIFESTYLE
WE HAVE, THE WAYS THAT WE’RE ACCUSTOMED TO LIVING.
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO COUCH ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS OR
FRAME ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.
WE NEED TO RELOOK AT THINGS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO
CLIMATE CHANGE. WE NEED TO TOTALLY RELOOK AT
OUR ECONOMY AND HOW IT WORKS. AND WHAT WE’RE DOING TO THE
WORLD BY THE KIND OF ECONOMY. THERE WAS AN EXPERIMENT I JUST
WANTED TO MENTION, I THINK IT WAS IN UTAH OR I’M NOT SURE
WHICH STATE. BUT THEY HAD A FISCAL CRISIS
A NUMBER OF YEARS AG, SO ALL OF STATE WORKERS WENT ON A
FOUR DAY WORK WEEK, AND IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
TURNS OUT THE WORKERS REALLY LIKE IT.
THEY CALL IT FATHER’S DAY BECAUSE ALL THE PARENTS,
ESPECIALLY FATHERS, WERE SPENDING WAY MORE TIME WITH
THEIR KIDS. MOST INTERESTING THING WAS
THEIR FOSSIL FUEL CONSUMPTION DROPPED BY 15%.
>>JUST FINAL QUESTION OR FINAL THOUGHT.
SOMEONE SAID, AS AN ISLAND STATE, HOW DO WE BALANCE OR
HOUSING NEEDS VERSUS OUR FOOD AND HOUSING NEEDS? IS IT
POSSIBLE TO HAVE A BALANCE?>>DEFINITELY CAN.
I THINK IT’S MORE, WELL, TWO THINGS.
DISCUSSION ABOUT GLOBAL IS TRUE.
WHILE WE’RE AN ISLAND, INFLUENCED BY GLOBAL FORCES.
BOTH ECONOMICALLY AS OTHER THINGS.
MIGRATION AND POPULATION. FOOD AND HOUSING IS THAT, WE
TALKED ABOUT SUPPLY BOTH. IT’S REALLY GLOBAL CONTEXT.
SO WE DON’T — USING THE CITY, NOT EVEN THE STATE, HAS FULL
CONTROL OF PRICING OR POPULATION GROWTH.
AS JESSE SAID IN THE BEGINNING, WE DON’T HAVE THE
TOOLS TO CONTROL, I MEAN, U.S. CONSTITUTION, CAN’T CONTROL.
THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE OF MOVEMENT.
WE JUST CAN’T. AND THEN THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC,
PRICE OF THINGS, IF YOU’RE IN A GLOBAL MARKET, YOU CAN’T
CONTROL IT. YOU HAVE ONLY A CERTAIN AMOUNT
OF CONTROL. WHAT WE CAN CONTROL IS WHAT WE
ALLOW. I DON’T THINK IT’S A QUESTION
OF LACK OF RESORES. I THINK THE LAND IS THERE.
I THINK SOME OF OUR REGULATIONS INCREASE THE COST
OF THINGS. AND WE CAN DEFINITELY IMPROVE
ON THAT AREA.>>MAHEALANI: DO YOU THINK WE
IT CAN HAVE A BALANCE? CAN WE ACHIEVE BALANCE?
>>WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR ECONOMY WORKS.
WE HAVE TO DO THAT. OTHERWISE, WE’RE NOT GOING
FOR BE ABLE TO DEAL — NOT EVEN GOING TO HAVE AN ISLAND
TO LIVE ON IF WE HAVE TO, WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.
THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT HUGE ISSUE.
WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT. A LOT OF KAKAAKO, YOU MIGHT BE
ABLE TO GET TO YOUR APARTMENT BY BOAT.
THAT’S THE ONLY WAY YOU’RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.
I THINK WE NEED TO RETHINK A LOT OF THINGS, GO BACK TO THE
DRAWING BOARD, AND WE CAN’T JUST KEEP REPORTING THAT NEW
HOUSING STARTER ARE UP AND THAT’S GOOD NEWS.
>>MAHEALANI: MR. SOUKI, CAN BALANCE BE ACHIEVED BETWEEN
AG AND FOOD NEEDS AND THIS NEED FOR HOUSING?
>>I THINK AS SAID IN THE BEGINNING, IT’S A FALSE
DICHOTOMY. A LOT OF THINGS WE NEED TO
THINK ABOUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW WE’RE USING LAND IN
THE STATE. WHEN IT COMES TO AGRICULTURE,
IT’S NOT JUST LAND, TIPPING POINT IN OAHU.
WE HAVE TO INVEST IN THINGS FOR PEOPLE TO FARM.
TO DO WITH LABOR, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS, INVEST IN STATE
AGRICULTURAL PARKS THAT KEEP LEASES LOW.
INFRASTRUCTURE POST ERA. ENABLE MORE PEOPLE TO FARM.
WHEN WE DO THAT, WE’LL GET MORE FOOD PRODUCED LOCALLY
AND FOR SALE NATIONALLY.>>MAHEALANI: I HAVE TO WRAP
THIS UP. TIME HAS COME TO AN END.
THANK EACH AND EVERY ONE OFFER FOR SPENDING THIS TIME WITH
US. VERY LIVELY CONVERSATION
TONIGHT. THANK YOU.
NEXT TIME ON INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII, FIRST 90 DAYS OF
GOVERNOR DAVID IGE WHILE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, NEW
GOVERNOR MADE SOME BOLD PROMISES THAT HE WOULD WORK TO
BUILD CONSENSUS REFORM PUBLIC EDUCATION, MODERNIZE OUR TAX
COLLECTION SYSTEM, AND SUPPORT OUR KUPUNA.
GOING FORWARD, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM OUR NEWLY ELECTED
GOVERNOR? THAT’S NEXT TIME ON INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.
I’M MAHEALANI RICHARDSON. A HUI HO.